Conversation with Mr. Robertson

I have the honour to report the following conversation with Mr. Norman Robertson¹ on Friday the 13th September. I was his guest at luncheon on that day at the Rideau Club.

High Commissioner for Canada in Ireland

Mr. Robertson will take up his new post as High Commissioner in London sometime in October and we spoke about that for awhile. I then asked him what about the appointment in to Dublin. He said that the new Minister for External Affairs, M. St. Laurent,² would be going into that in a few days when he returned to work. (M. St. Laurent has been ill of influenza since the day after he was sworn in). I said that the chief thing would be to choose a man who was in the full confidence of the new Minister for External Affairs and the Prime Minister.

The Under-Secretary asked me whether we regarded a Catholic appoint-ment as essential. I said 'No, but they feel at home that it would be desirable. They quite agree with you that there is no reason for confining the post to Irish Canadians, no reason, for example, why you shouldn't send us a French Canadian'.

Mr. Robertson did not seem particularly taken by my observation that you would regard a Catholic appointment as desirable. He was a little upset by it and asked 'What about Tom Davis?' (Mr. Thomas Davis has been, as you are aware, High Commissioner in Australia. He is mentioned in the press of the 13th September as the new Ambassador to Moscow, to succeed Dr. Wilgress who has fallen foul of the Russians in Paris). I said that Mr. Davis would be a very good appointment. (On principle I do not object to any name mentioned to me by the Under-Secretary). 'I thought', my host went on, 'that his relationship to the great Thomas Davis would make his appointment a nice touch'. 'Did John Kearney not tell you' I asked 'about the discovery of the Davis Committee in Dublin last year that Tom is not the grand nephew of the great Thomas Davis at all?' 'Good Lord, no', Mr. Robertson replied, 'you don't tell me its a fake'. I said 'Its worse than that. The Department thought that I made the whole story up and that it was I who concocted - I did suggest - the message to the Taoiseach for the centenary celebrations. I was looked at more in sorrow than in anger when I went home last year. But luckily the Davis Committee cleared the matter up before the celebrations took place. Kearney should have told you, so should I, before now.' Mr. Robertson was quite non-plussed and, of course, amused, but he thought it was too bad that such a mistake should have been made. It would have been a serious thing, he felt, if the Taoiseach had been put in the position of having actually published the message before the mistake was discovered. 'You know' he said 'its on our files somewhere that Tom is the grand nephew of Davis. We will have to change his "curriculum" and, perhaps, that will mean changing his career'.

'Jack Hart', (Premier of British Columbia) he continued, 'is very keen on going to Dublin. He has been pressing the Prime Minister. But, personally, I am not sure he would do'. (For some reason Mr. Robertson has set himself against Mr. Hart's appointment. It may be on the ground that he is of Irish birth and the most outstanding Catholic layman in Western Canada).

'I see', he said, 'that the 'Gazette' has appointed Tom Guerin, what do you think of him?'

I replied that Mr. Guerin was a nice, courtly man, wealthy, and terribly keen on getting the post.

'But a light-weight', Mr. Robertson added. Then he said: 'Dulanty told me, by the way, that Kearney had begun to lose the common touch'.

'Well' I replied 'one of the things Mr. Boland particularly asked me to mention to you is that the appointment of a snob would be fatal. There is a good deal of snobbery in countries that have had a long history of absentee monarchy. You have it in Canada and we have it in Ireland.'

The Under-Secretary: 'You mean that there is far less snobbery in England? That's a good point.'

'Well, in Ireland, it is the "upper ten" who do the entertaining, they lionize the diplomatic corps and the tendency is for representatives in Dublin to lose touch with the people generally and to get a wrong slant upon opinion. Most of those who entertain the corps in Ottawa are opposed to Mr. Mackenzie King.'

'That's true' Mr. Robertson commented. I know that one of his headaches is the question of official entertainment and what goes on (criticizing the Department etc.). 'We have the same problems'. The thing, he felt, for both countries is decent men who won't lose themselves in the social sets who pick them up for their 'collection'.

Mr. Robertson promised to let me know very soon the name of the man they decide upon for Dublin.

[matter omitted]

Prime Minister Mackenzie King

Mr. Robertson impressed upon me at the end of this conversation the importance of my making it clear to you that Mr. King's omission to visit Ireland 'had no political significance'. 'None whatever' he repeated. 'The Prime Minister is an old man, harassed, worried and confused. Expect nothing from him so far as Ireland is concerned. He is thinking of other things. You know him as well as anyone has ever known him. He has given up External Affairs. That's the beginning of his retirement. He is withdrawing within himself. I notice it every day. Then, in the end, he will quietly pass from the scene.'

I said that they were fortunate in having so fine and so distinguished a man as M. St. Laurent to take the folio of External Affairs. Mr. Robertson spoke at length of M. St. Laurent's good qualities. I said at what seemed an appropriate point 'But why on earth didn't he give us a break in the Citizenship Bill?' (M. St. Laurent as Minister for Justice had a good deal to do with that Bill). 'Don't blame St. Laurent for that' was the reply. 'He wasn't to blame. A number of considerations stood in the way'.

As we left the Club, Sir Alexander Clutterbuck came towards us in the hall and began: 'About the arrangements for Mr. Hugh Dalton'. Mr. Robertson sighed wearily: 'Oh yes'. I took my leave.