As I have already indicated in my telegram on the subject¹ I was asked to call at the section of the Foreign Office dealing with internal affairs, in connection with our enquiry as to whether the German government would be prepared to grant exit visas to a number of Jewish families with the object of their proceeding to Ireland. It was explained to me that the German government has on occasion received requests through the Protecting Power from certain countries such as Holland and Great Britain to allow Dutch and British Jews to leave Germany; in such cases, so I was told, the justification for the intervention was clear enough – a Government was intervening on behalf of its own nationals. In regard to our enquiry, however, no such justification existed on the face of it as we were seeking to have Polish, German, French and Dutch Jews granted exit visas to go to Ireland. In these circumstances it would be necessary to know, before the case could be further considered, why we wished these Jews to come to Ireland. The particular heads on which the German authorities would like information were whether it is intended that the Jews in question should remain in Ireland indefinitely, ultimately acquiring Irish nationality, whether it is intended that they should only remain there for some time, later returning to Europe or migrating to Palestine, and whether any of the families in question had relatives in or close connections with Ireland. If it was intended that these families should become Irish citizens the German authorities would, I was given to understand, 'gladly save us the inconvenience of having so many Jews'; if on the other hand it was proposed that these families should return to Europe after the end of the war it could be inferred that a German defeat was presupposed; if it was intended that they should later go to Palestine, the German government could not approve of an arrangement which would have for result to introduce further Jewish elements into an Arab territory; if finally any of the families in question had relatives in Ireland their cases could, on receipt of information on that point, be examined individually.

In the course of the above exposé I gathered that there was a tendency to see some connection between our enquiry and Anglo-American refugee schemes (regarded as hostile to Germany).

I replied to the points raised to the effect that I would ask you for information as to the reasons for our enquiry, that, while I did not know the details of the case, I was sure that we were prepared to admit the families involved purely on humanitarian grounds, probably considering that the food situation in Ireland would permit of some people from the continent (such as also 500 French children) being received and nourished in Ireland better than could be done in Europe, that quite possibly our enquiry followed a démarche from the Irish Red Cross or similar benevolent organisation and that, in any event, it was certainly quite wrong to read any political implications into our request which was undoubtedly inspired exclusively by humanitarian motives.

I have thought it best to give you the above account of this interview so that you may see how enquiries touching on the Jewish question can be made to assume enormous proportions in the minds of certain German officials. I need not say, of course, that the official with whom I had this interview is not identical with the official to whom the original note was presented and who would certainly not have considered the case (or at least admitted doing so) on the lines indicated. The official to whom I was referred is, I think a member of the SS-organisation, but is, of course, a fully accredited member of the Foreign Office and was before the war active in the German-English Society whose general object was to promote better understanding between the two countries. The case is interesting as showing how matters of this kind may be treated by one section of the Foreign Office whose view must, I understand, be obtained in all instances in which exit-visas are sought: in certain cases (where e.g. an application is made by an Irish national) the role of this section may be purely consultative; in others (e.g. Jews) its role is predominant over that of other sections of the Wilhelmstrasse. I should add that the official involved said to me that he thought it best to put these questions to us at this stage as, if a submission in favour of say the grant of visas were made to the higher authority, it would be referred back with similar queries.

I should finally state that I formed the definite impression that exit-visas will not be granted in these cases, not even to those families which may have relatives in Ireland. You are already aware that the grant of visas to the French children has been refused. The Deputy Director of the Political Department, who so informed me verbally, had said previously (as I told you at the time) that the Jewish families were less likely to receive exit visas than were the French children.